THE MICHELLE PHILLIPS INTERVIEW, PART
TWO
April 4, 2004
Three and a
half months ago, Michelle Phillips reminisced about her years as Anne Matheson
on Knots Landing and provided new insight into her pop supergroup, The Mamas
and the Papas. This time around, those
themes return but she moves into other areas of her life, namely, a
never-before-heard recounting of her one solo album, “Victim of Romance,” and
her opinions on a multitude of topics.
John Kerry, the forthcoming Wilson Phillips reunion album, the Internet,
“A Mighty Wind,” “Me and Bobby McGee,” and her first encounter with Cass
Elliot. Once again, Michelle Phillips
from Los Angeles.
Arthur Swift: Welcome back and thanks for giving
your time once more. When we left you
at the end of Part One, you were soon heading to South Africa to film a
documentary. How did that go?
Michelle Phillips: Yes, I was going to be filming a
documentary about the Marula tree.
AS: Is the documentary complete?
Michelle Phillips:
I didn’t go. The documentary
didn’t happen.
AS: That’s too
bad. Why?
Michelle Phillips: It fell apart. It was a matter of money to make it. They’re thinking of doing it later in the
year or maybe a year from now when the Marula drops again.
AS: What a
shame. I really wanted to see that too.
Michelle Phillips:
It is too bad.
AS: Let’s get to the
questions I didn’t get to in Part One.
Following such a successful career with the Mamas
and the Papas, I was shocked you didn't go on to a solo career but instead you
went to acting. Was it something you always wanted to do, or something you just
fell into?
Michelle Phillips: It was something
I wanted to do. I certainly didn’t want
to sing as a soloist; I was part of a sound and I enjoyed that. As I told you last time, I never really
wanted to become a singer to begin with.
You have to have a lot of ambition to create a career to keep it alive.
I had no interest in doing that with singing.
That also includes people like Scott McKenzie (“San Francisco”) going
out there by himself. He never wanted
to do that. There are kids in the 4th
grade you can look at them and say, “They’re going to be a star.”
I’m a very good group singer, but I’m not a
soloist. That’s why I wasn’t given a
lot of solos in the group.
Charles from the USA asks
Hi Michelle,
I've always enjoyed your solo album released on A&M Records, but I have
never heard you comment on it. Would you care to share any thoughts or
reminisces about the album?
Michelle Phillips: It was called “Victim of
Romance.” Jack Nietzsche produced it on
A&M and Jack was a protégé of Phil Spector’s. He was a total madman
(Laughs). I worked very, very hard on the album, and I loved the album. But it
was pretty much sabotaged by the promotion department at A & M. They felt I had hurt a lot of feelings by
going directly to Alpert and Jerry Moss (in getting the record deal). It was perceived that I went in through the
front door instead of through the normal way.
Also, I didn’t
want to go on the road with it. I
really don’t like singing in front of an audience, so that hurt the album. Only one of the songs I wrote was on it. But it was re-released in Japan recently and
I’m glad about that.
AS: The album came out in 1977 and had to be recorded in the
mid-70s, years after the Mamas and the Papas broke up. Why did you make an album after all that
time?
Michelle Phillips: I had been doing a lot of writing. I
was playing with my old piano, dabbling with my guitar and songs started to
come of it. For many years I was
controlled by John (Phillips) and Lou Adler and I wanted to do my own
thing. I remember in 1970 I came back
from Peru after doing Dennis Hopper’s movie, The Last Movie, and I went to John
and Lou Adler and told them I wanted to do a single. I had an ‘A’ side and a
‘B’ side, “Me and Bobby McGee” and “Help Me Make It Through The Night.” They looked at me like I was crazy.
AS: You had “Me and
Bobby McGee” first?
Michelle Phillips:
Yes. And of course Kris Kristofferson
became one of the greatest songwriters of our time, and six months later “Me
and Bobby McGee” was the number one single in the country.
My album
started out with John Phillips producing but it soon became obvious that he was
not physically capable to do it so I switched to Jack Nietzsche. The album was very well reviewed but it just
wasn’t a hit, like 90% of the albums that are released.
AS: What was the
sound like? Did you try to make it
contemporary to compete with the bands at the time or were you trying to create
a “retro” vibe from the ‘60s?
Michelle Phillips: It was a very romantic album, with a
lot of ballads. “Victim of Romance” was
one of the names of the songs, written by Moon Martin, there was a song John
had written, a song I had written, “Lady of Fantasy,” also “As You Turn Away,”
by the Bee Gees.
Eran from Israel asks
Hi and what a HUGE honour!
I always wanted to know, are there any songs you recorded during the 70's circa
"Victim of Romance" or later that were never released? If so, are
there any plans to release them? You have a beautiful much underrated voice.
Michelle Phillips: Well isn’t that sweet. Only song that we had recorded that wasn’t
released was a song I had written named “Huerita.” “Huera” means blonde in
Spanish and “huerita” means blondie.
Jack never understood the song; I wanted the Mexican sound but somehow
it became a Peruvian-sounding thing.
No, there’s no plan to release it.
Knotsfan5 from New York City asks
I just loved it when Anne started going after Gary Ewing, especially the
episode where she followed Gary to church and even signed up to teach Sunday
school - the specific class attended by his children! Are you
disappointed that the writers never pursued your pursuit of Gary?
Michelle Phillips: I thought it was a big mistake to get
me involved with Gary Ewing. I asked
them not to put me with Gary. I thought
the chemistry was not there with Ted Shackelford. And I didn’t want to be one those characters who bounced from one
man to another.
AS: Like the village slut.
Michelle Phillips (Laughs): Exactly. So I told Larry (Kasha) that I didn’t want
to do it and he ended the story.
Bradley Wiles from Adelaide, Australia
asks
Hi Michelle, I once read somewhere that you follow a strict routine in cleansing
your face! What is the technique called and do you still do this daily? You
look even better today than in your Knots days! Love from Australia xxxx
Michelle Phillips: Oh isn’t that sweet. The routine began with using Erno Lazlo
products but you don’t have to use those by any means. The idea is that you wash your face with
soap every morning, with a mild cleanser and rinse it with the same soapy water
30 times.
AS: Thirty times!
Michelle Phillips: Thirty times. Erno Lazlo had an astringent that he
sold. I use rosewater. You can buy rosewater in any Indian store
where you can get a half-gallon for $6 or a few ounces for $12 in a major
department store. I always use
moisturizer. And I always use L’Oreal. And here’s the big reason why I use
it. I use it because I can buy it at my
supermarket! (Laughs) A moisturizer with a sun block, and at night
you use a moisturizer without sun block.
Lazlo also has what’s called active phelatyl cream that is an eye, lip,
throat cream. Remember, it doesn’t have
to be these exact products. The big
thing is that you do this in the morning and at night. I don’t care what you did during the day;
you have to follow this routine. Do
this like saying your prayers (Laughs)
Diana (Doherty) Wilson from Halifax,
Nova Scotia asks
Hello Michelle ...a
long time since we spoke. The days of Denny Show in Halifax when John
dropped Denny's guitar, are you remembering now or how could you forget?
Anyhow, how have you been keeping.... you look terrific!!! Just wanted to
say hello.... Denny was in town on the weekend (11/29/03) the family went to
dinner and Emberly's play at Dalhousie. Good time!! Cheers.
Michelle Phillips pauses.
AS: I don’t know if
there’s a question in there. Do you
know this person? Is this his daughter
or some Internet ruse?
Michelle Phillips:
She’s not his daughter, maybe a cousin of Denny’s. Emberly is his daughter and is going to
school and lives in Nova Scotia. Denny
lives in Mississauga, outside of Toronto. So … hi back! I’m doing great! (Laughs loudly)
AS: Tom from New Jersey asks:
Do you have a favorite story/memory about your relationship with Cass Elliot?
Michelle Phillips: That is a hard question. There are so many memories that I have of
her. (Pauses) The first memory is as weird as it gets. The night I met Cass was the first time I
had taken acid. John and Denny were
waiting for her to come by and I said, “I don’t know about you but this drug
does nothing for me.” Then Cass knocked on the door and I opened it and said,
“But maybe it does!” And we had the most interesting conversation for 20
hours.
AS: Do you remember the date?
Michelle Phillips: January 9, 1965. Within four months we were all living
together, even after the group disbanded.
We were all a dysfunctional family, inextricably linked for the rest of
our lives.
AS: So why did Cass
come over to begin with? Did she just
show up?
Michelle Phillips: She was coming to meet John and
me. She was a friend of Denny’s. That was also the first time I had heard the
Beatles. Don’t ask me where I was for
the year and a half before. (Laughs)
Paul from Florida asks
Hi Michelle. Loved you in Knots Landing and especially the chemistry you and
Nick shared. How would you envision life with Nick in Monaco after the series
end?
Michelle Phillips: Nick was just a ladies’ man so he
probably would have had lots of female admirers. I assume he would be just like a gigolo. I don’t think Anne was really in love with
him; she was just using him. They were
partners in crime. But they probably
had great sex.
AS (Laughs): Yeah I bet they did.
Michelle Phillips: I actually ran into Lorenzo
(Caccialanza) recently.
AS: Ran into
him? Where?
Michelle Phillips: At a wedding. I just had to give him the third
degree. I tried to reach him many times
and hadn’t heard from him in 4 years.
He was always the perfect person to get back to you and come to parties
and things.
I'm the
producer of the web fan fiction 'Fantasy Knots Landing' and would
be grateful if you could give me some advice on how to write Anne who will
feature heavily in the next season. I want Anne's human side to be revealed.
While I fully intend to feature her as the schemer at times, I also want to
see the audience routing for her against the series' villains. Do you agree
with this portrayal or would you prefer her to be truly nasty?
Michelle Phillips: As I mentioned last time, in the
back-story I thought of, Anne had suffered at the hands of her father. Their relationship bordered on the
physical. That’s why she’s so
helpless. That’s why she has to have
her daughter’s money. She tricks Sumner
into marrying her. But I do think
there’s a wonderful side to her. I do
think she’s a lost little lamb. I know
most people won’t see that very clearly but there are some other dimensions to
her character. She only embezzles the
money because she’s penniless; then again she plays very fast and loose with
the rules. She’s always the seductress
and temptress. That’s not to say she
shouldn’t have these very pointy sides to her.
She is a dangerous kind of person. (Pauses) I think it’s wonderful
that’s she’s rather kind of complex.
AS: There are a few web series that continue the story of
Knots Landing, like Knots Landing Reborn and Fantasy Knots Landing. What’s interesting about Fantasy Knots
Landing is that it fills in the four-year gap between the end of the series run
and the reunion. So we’re getting
closer to you becoming a psychic.
Michelle Phillips: I should become a preacher, an Aimee
Semple McPherson, mixing with all this new age mumbo jumbo then. Yeah, Anne
could be a spiritual leader and maybe it all starts with her telling
fortunes. I love these preachers; it
could be really funny.
AS: And that would be very classic Californian too, a side
of the state that Knots never really explored. Anne could be like Marianne
Williamson.
Michelle Phillips: Exactly. Anne is into crystals and all the herbal mixtures. But when she
finally gets alone, you see her making a martini. (Extended laughter)
Séverine from France asks
Michelle, What was your favorite movie, your favorite
actress and idol, what "pushed" you to do this job? How did you feel
the first time you were face to a camera?
With regards from France!
Michelle Phillips: I loved Jean Tierney. I loved Audrey Hepburn. I loved Katherine Hepburn. I had an odd relationship with film in that
I didn’t really see a movie until my teens.
The first movie I saw was The Red Shoes and then I think after that The
Tales of Hoffman. Two movies that were
about ballet with a classical theme.
When I was in Mexico I remember all the film stars there like Maria
Felix, Pedro Infante and Jorge Negrete.
When I got to America I loved Kim Novak, she was my idol, and Brigitte
Bardot. When I was growing up I watched
a lot of French films, there were so many new French directors like Godard and
Truffaut. We didn’t watch American
films really.
Vince from New York asks
What were your feelings on being reunited with your Mamas and Papas band mate
Denny Doherty for the American Soundtrack production that was recently aired on
PBS?
Michelle Phillips: That was great. A folk music festival. Kind of like the true-life A Mighty
Wind. The Journeymen were there with
Dick Weisman and Scott McKenzie; Judy Collins was there. The Lovin’ Spoonful
without John Sebastian. The Serendipity Singers – all nine original members.
AS (Laughs): That reminds me of that squeaky clean group
from A Mighty Wind, all those members, all with matching outfits.
Michelle Phillips: Yeah, “squeaky-clean” is the way to
put it all right, for all the bands.
There was no Bob Dylan at this thing.
Eric Weisberg played banjo, and the Rooftop Singers were there. I’m sorry, but these were the real commercial bands. (Sings) “Oh
no/Don’t let the rain come down/Oh Oh! Don’t let the rain come down”
AS: Was the irony that you were doing a show like A Mighty
Wind lost on anyone?
Michelle Phillips (Laughs): No, it wasn’t lost on
anyone. We were actually cracking up
watching some of the groups in the wings.
AS: Did they have a grand finale like in the movie?
Michelle Phillips: Oh yes. It was “California Dreamin’.”
AS: Oh no!
(Laughs) What a joke. I think it’s great that the Academy Award
voters had enough of a sense of humor to nominate that Mitch and Mickey
song. Who were they supposed to be
anyway? Paul and Paula?
Michelle Phillips: I’m not sure. Maybe Ian and Sylvia. Even if they weren’t based on anyone real
they would have existed in somebody’s mind.
AS: Speaking of group music, how is your daughter’s Wilson
Phillips album coming?
Michelle Phillips: I just heard the first teaser on the
radio this morning. It was the
Fleetwood Mac song “Go Your Own Way.”
I’ve listened to the album and it’s great. They have a cover of
“Monday, Monday” and “In My Room.” Brian Wilson came in and sang one of
the verses. They have a version of Joni
Mitchell’s “California.”
AS: Is this a whole album of covers?
Michelle Phillips: Yes.
They were in the middle of doing an album of their own songs when the
record company heard a few covers and said, “Why don’t you do all covers?” Peter Asher produced it and it’s going to be
called Pacific Coast Highway.
AS: When is it
coming out?
Michelle Phillips: Three weeks.
AS: What’s the first single going to be?
Michelle Phillips: They don’t know yet. They’re going to see what the stations pick
up.
AS: It’s great
they’re back together but I never understood why they broke up when they were
so popular.
Michelle Phillips: Well, there are a lot of dynamics
between three young women. It’s not
always what it seems. The fact is that
now Wendy has a baby and Carnie has two babies and Carnie is not 150 pounds
overweight. She looks great, by the
way. But they’re just a totally
different group right now.
AS: Did you ever
think of the identity of the “redheaded girl” from Part One? You know, the teen actress who was making an
album and said it was “so hard”?
Michelle Phillips: Kristy McNichol.
AS: Really?
Michelle Phillips:
She had red hair, right?
AS: Maybe. I think it may have been strawberry blonde.
Michelle Phillips: Yeah. It was she.
AS: Tell me about
your two sons.
Michelle Phillips: Aron (Wilson) is 23 and is a sound
engineer and Austin (Hines) is 22 and he is in college and is taking acting
classes.
AS: Is he a senior?
Michelle Phillips: Umm … he’s taking it at a nice
leisurely pace (Laughs).
AS: Are you married?
Michelle Phillips: No. I was engaged from 1988 and we
were going to get married on January 1, 2000 but we had broken up in the middle
of 1999. I have been dating someone
since late 1999 and though we’re not married we still see each other a lot and
are just as happy.
AS: What is his
name?
Michelle Phillips: Steven Zax. He’s a plastic surgeon.
AS: It’s nice to get
the update. You’ve come a long way from
your tabloid days.
Michelle Phillips: Yeah I have. Though speaking of the tabloids, there is
this story that came out recently that I should mention. The National Enquirer said I had dated John
Kerry and that we broke up. And I was so mad at him that I had sent money to
his opponent in a race for the Senate.
This was utterly false. We had
never had a romance. In early 1987 I
had one dinner with him! So that is not
true and I’m going to vote for him.
He’s very intelligent, very charming and I would say, very presidential.
The thing is,
the National Enquirer had my number, and they could have called me. But they
never did. I called the editor and said
this wasn’t true but they said they don’t run retractions. They printed another story saying that I had
said it wasn’t true instead. I got
faxes from Germany, from Japan, all wanting a comment on this story. Even the Boston Herald printed a story with
a source as “The National Enquirer.” This is what the world is coming to? Since when does anyone treat the National
Enquirer as a credible news source?
AS: Did this rumor originate on the Internet? Like the John Kerry dating an intern rumor?
Michelle Phillips: No, I don’t think so. But the Internet is a source for a lot of
wrong information as well. As you know,
I don’t have a computer but I was over at somebody’s house and they said, “I
wonder what it says about you on the Internet.” So they Googled me and so much of it was half-truths or not true
at all. But people read things on the
computer and they think it’s got to be the God’s truth. It’s all probably put together by some
lackey at the Google Company. That’s
why the Internet doesn’t interest me.
AS: On that note, it’s time to end our Internet interview. Thanks again for your time and generosity,
Michelle.
Michelle:
Thank you Art. Call me in six
months if you want to do this again.
Arthur Swift is a student at the Columbia University Graduate School of
Journalism in New York City.
Copyright 2004 Arthur Swift.