Michele Lee is
not only Karen Mackenzie. She starred
in, wrote, produced and directed Color Me Perfect, a landmark television
movie about mental disabilities. She
has had a lavish Broadway career, from originating Rosemary in How to
Succeed in Business Without Really Trying to most recently earning a Tony
nomination for Tale of the Allergist’s Wife. And she even shared billing with a lovable Volkswagen, Herbie, in
The Love Bug. But for those who
know the residents of Knots Landing better than their own families, Michele
will always be Karen, a model citizen, mother and friend.
It is a
pleasure to present Michele Lee in this exclusive interview.
Michele Lee:
I’m so glad to be here.
Tommy
Strangie from Miami
Beach, Florida asks: “First let me start by saying that I have watched
every episode of Knots Landing in fact again in repeats and I always
find something new to love in the show and your incredible performance as Karen
Mackenzie … this is less a question than a gushy way of saying thank you for 14
years of a wonderful show that I couldn’t wait to see and watch with my family
… opening up many discussions on a lot of issues … anyway, Do you have a
favorite episode? … PS Congrats on the Tony nomination and the success of “The
Tale of the Allergists Wife” … Best Wishes from Your rambling fan – Tommy
Strangie.
Michele:
I love this kind of rambling. I
now have a swollen head and my feet are hurting too. It’s very difficult to answer a question of favorite
episode. I have several episodes or
storylines that are my favorites.
Certainly the Constance McCashin character and how that was written out
was one. That was done with great love
and time and thought and creativity by David Jacobs in a two-part episode.
Karen’s
addiction, at a time when we as a nation were examining our culture and
addiction problems. It was powerful
because of the knowledge that addiction could come to anyone, including a First
Lady and Karen Mackenzie. Lastly but
certainly not least, Val’s babies – and the emotional connection with the
audience who worried about any peril happening to their children—that was
always an important, emotional story for me.
AS:
Well, I guess that answers what would have been my next question, from Tatianna
in Virginia, who asked during the run of the show which storyline did you
most enjoy…
Michele:
Yes, it probably did.
AS:
So let me ask this then, which storyline did you like most that you were
the lead actress in? The stories that
revolved around you, I mean.
Michele: Let me answer it from another
perspective. The things that I loved
about my character – the things I loved with Karen, Mack and Val were when we
were able to show our comedic talents as actors. I believe that was inherent in so many of the scenes. Oh!
Let me add to that last question by also mentioning the Pollyanna speech
as one of my favorite moments as Karen.
The Pollyanna speech was a testimony to our writers keeping our fingers
on the pulse of what (the audience) was feeling in their own lives. If we were doing the show today I could give
the Pollyanna speech and add a few more items.
I loved that feistiness in Karen.
Alex Wade from Detroit, MI asks: “A lot
has been made of the fact that actors on Knots had input into the
storylines. Which storylines did you
directly influence or lobby for?”
Michele:
I hardly had to lobby for stories but there were times during the course
of Knots Landing that things that were happening in my personal life
were reflected in Karen by David Jacobs.
AS:
Like what for example?
Michele:
When I was a single parent in the third or second season, I was a single
parent in my personal life. So feelings
that were happening in my personal life, things that happened with my
girlfriends, they would take pieces of us and you’d see that turn up in an
episode.
Let me tell
you a story. There was a time when I
was with a friend and I was trying on a sweater. Either the sweater had shrunk or I had gained weight because I
was having a lot of difficulty getting this sweater on! And my friend asked me if I had gained
weight or the sweater had shrunk. “I
don’t know,” I said, so she said maybe if you stretched it out the sweater
would fit…
AS:
I remember that well.
Michele:
Yeah, remember that in the scene with Val? That was a small example of how things would turn up in the
shows.
AS:
And it’s funny that that was a real life example because it fit well
with the story it was a part of. You
were feeling threatened by Michele Phillips’ character going after Mack, so
you, or Karen, might have been more self-conscious about your appearance.
Michele:
That’s right, that’s right. Now
I remember that. That’s an example of
how great our writers were.
James from
London asks: “The
comedic toing and froing between you and Kevin Dobson was one of the things
that gave Knots Landing its wonderfully unique and ‘knotty’ flavour! How did that aspect of your onscreen
partnership develop, and would it be fair to say that Mack brought out a
lighter, even zanier side of Karen that wasn’t there during her first
marriage?”
Michele:
Kevin Dobson and I as actors had something very special. We loved to do this banter as Karen and
Mack; we would get together in my dressing room before a scene and rehearse
what we were going to do. This brought
out the lighter side in the characters and it’s one of my very favorite things
in playing Karen.
Frankie from Baltimore, Maryland asks:
“What are your feelings when you hear that Karen was looked at as a hero for us
Pollyannas out there? Do you think this made her character less assertive
since she was looked at as a Pollyanna or do you think that there's a little of
Karen in everyone?”
Michele: I think Karen was very assertive in
that statement. I hope there’s a
Pollyanna in all of us and that part doesn’t ever die. I still have that part in me. I think what was interesting about that speech
was that we weren’t used to hearing our characters that impassioned. Karen showed the frustrations we were having
with our society. There are two things
to consider with that speech – the issue of Karen being called a Pollyanna and
whether Karen actually was a Pollyanna.
Karen wanted to be a Pollyanna and wasn’t ashamed of that.
Remember in
our society, maybe people don’t remember, but remember when we could go over to
other people’s houses and come in through an open back door? I remember when I was a little girl and my
mother and father would have people over and they’d walk into an unlocked door
in our house. Maybe apropos Knots
Landing would have been Val opening the back door and Karen saying
(simulates Karen calling from another room), “Hi Val, come on in!” That would never happen now.
Alex Wade
from Detroit also
asks, “Much in this forum has been made of Karen's little explored dark side.
For instance, she's never been voted (s)mother of the year, as her kids
appeared the most messed up (Diana and Eric both married sociopaths and Michael
had that weird incest hang-up). Looking back, does she wish that Knots
had explored Karen's dark side more?”
Michele: (Laughing) First let me say “incest”
wasn’t exactly incest. But if you take
apart Karen’s kids and looked at them, you’d have to say at some point what the
hell happened to those kids? I don’t
think she had a dark side and I think she did a very good job of raising kids
--- what I think happened is that they ran out storylines (Laughs more). It’s true!
That family was supposed to be the solid family, the Rock of Gibraltar,
but how do you keep it interesting? You
have a kid marrying a sociopath, that’s how.
So I don’t know if I’d want to see Karen’s dark side explored more …
maybe her lukewarm side, how’s that?
But I have to say that I think a lot of people would have liked to have
had Karen as a mother. It’s a good
question, though. Good question.
Collin from Los Angeles asks: “Can you talk a little about the excellent
writing/producing team of Bernard Lechowick and Lynn Marie Latham, who kept Knots
extremely strong for several seasons as the show grew older? Their
scripts and storylines for the series were particularly strong.”
Michele:
I agree. I think they had a
wonderful knack for writing character.
(Loud, prolonged noise occurs in the background). What was that? Hold on … (Noise continues).
I’m looking outside my window because the war is beginning any
minute. (Laughs). Let me look at another window … Can you hear
that?
AS:
Sounds like a dump truck.
Michele:
That’s pretty loud. I’ve got my
TV on and who knows what’s going to happen.
(Noise continues, louder than before)
AS:
Maybe it’s a motorcycle.
Michele:
Motorcycle, yeah maybe … I don’t know, weird. Where was I?
AS:
“I think they had a wonderful knack for writing character.”
Michele:
Oh yeah. They understood the
voice of the character and had a great sense of humor. And you’re right; they did it later in the
series when most other shows start to fade.
AS:
They were my favorite writers.
Michele:
Mine too.
Allison from Sanford, FL asks: “Was
there any co-star that was more challenging to work with than others?
Also, who was your favorite to work with, and why? Thanks.”
Michele:
That’s a difficult question to answer.
Bill Devane, who I love, let me say that right from the beginning, had a
very interesting approach to work. He
kind of used his persona to dictate how his character would be seen. So sometimes that would result in his scenes
being rewritten on the spot. The reason
I say I love him is because 99, or 99.9 percent of the time he was right. But it did make it difficult to rearrange
things at the last minute. He liked to
bully people but he didn’t really bully, if that makes sense. I liked working with him but I’m sure most
people were frightened of him. (Laughs wildly).
As for who I
liked to work with most, it may not be new to say but we had no actor who
“acted” as a star. That is hard to find
in personalities. I loved working with
Kevin – we were husband and wife (on the show) and we acted as husband and wife
in real life. Joan Van Ark and Val …
when we ever send notes or gift cards or any messages to each other we still
always refer to each other as Karen and Val.
There was a
time in the second season I believe when Karen was worried that her husband was
going to cheat on her (of course that would never happen) and she was with Val
and they just look at each other and say “Pizza?” Remember that?
AS:
Sure do.
Michele:
So pizza, that’s a phrase that has stuck with us for many years. Sometimes when Joan and I are together we
will look at each other after something has happened and just say, “Pizza?”
Pamela
Newstead from the United
Kingdom asks: “Do you still keep in touch with all the old Knots Cast, i.e.
Joan Van Ark, Ted Shackelford, Donna Mills and your screen husband Kevin?”
Michele:
Not as much as I would like to.
I was invited to go to Donna Mills’ home for a party recently and I
couldn’t make it because I was out of town.
They all came to see me in my Broadway play “Tale of the Allergists
Wife.” Ted Shackelford is in another
country and doing something else so it’s difficult to see him. Bill Devane is in Palm Springs so he’s out
of the way.
AS (blurting out): I went to his restaurant out there,
Devane’s. Have you been?
Michele:
Yes I did.
AS:
Sorry I cut you off.
Michele:
It’s OK. I did recently go to
Michael Filerman’s home for a party for the tenth anniversary of Knots
Landing going off the air. He only
had a small group of people associated with the show.
AS:
Really. What did you talk about
at the party?
Michele:
How bad TV is today. (Laughs)
AS:
What does he do now?
Michele:
He produces. He’s producing a
few Broadway shows and is very active in the theater. He’s more in the theater but sometimes produces outside of New
York. Michael was always one of my
favorite people.
Pearsonsf from San Francisco, CA asks:
“Michele,
it was a dream come true to meet you this past year in San Francisco. Also this
year I drove down to the cul-de-sac and visited. Have you ever taken a
nostalgic trip to see your old stomping ground?”
Michele: I only went back to the cul de sac
once. We were driving somewhere and
were nearby and turned off and stopped there.
Oh listen, it was pretty awesome.
It was a part of my life that will always be there.
Christine from Germany asks: “I enjoyed watching the storyline in seasons
11/12 where Karen is supposedly stalked by a crazy fan and later it turns out the
baddie is actually her producer. Sadly,
this happens in real life too that celebrities get stalked. Therefore my
question: Did you ever have an obsessed fan in real life?”
Michele:
I never had an obsessed fan, to my knowledge, who stalked me. Like all actors, I’ve had some letters and
communications that were disturbing in some manner.
Bob Philips from the UK asks: “Which other
character on Knots would you most have liked to play?”
Michele:
Well, it’s always fun to play the bad guy, so I’d have to say Abby. I’m not as sexy as Abby, no one is, but it
would have fun to play that part.
AS:
A lot of people would disagree with you.
Michele:
I’ve always thought of myself as sexy.
(Laughing loudly). Tell them I’m
laughing. (Continues laughing)
Robert from Canada asks: “Will we ever
get DVD season sets of Knots Landing?”
Michele (quite surprised): Ooh Robert, I never thought of that! Seriously, I’ll have to take that suggestion
up with the right people. That’s an
excellent idea. Thank you!
AS:
What about an E! True Hollywood Story? I know a lot of people have wondered if that would come out.
Michele: Isn’t that about the dirt on a show? I don’t believe in that stuff. I’ve always been really opposed to it. But yeah, there had been talk about doing
one.
Bob
McCormack from Scotland
asks: “I am the creator of Fantasy Knots Landing, an original web series
on Knots Landing Net that follow the characters after the end of the show. Do you have any ideas for how you would like
to see Karen and Mack progress beyond the show?”
Michele: I’ve never heard of that! Is this something you do?
AS:
I’ve contributed to it but Bob created it and does almost all the
work. There’s even a forum set up just
to discuss Fantasy Knots Landing.
Michele:
Are they actual scripts or just one-page summaries?
AS:
Actual scripts.
Michele:
Well, what is going on with it?
AS:
It covers the four years from the end of the show to the reunion in ’97—
Michele:
Aha! Very clever. What a great idea.
AS:
You really should check it out.
So knowing that, how would you like to see Karen and Mack progress?
Michele: Certainly they have to be the family
that stays together. They shouldn’t be
beyond the society that we are living in.
And they should never, ever be divorced. Karen and Mack were the hope for all successful
relationships. It should stay that way.
STORM
CLOUDS
Kl4me from Montreal asks: “Actors go
through contract negotiations every few years on primetime shows. Were
there a few times that you considered not re-signing and why?”
Michele:
That gets a little personal, but speaking for everyone, everyone wants
to be appreciated and every side wants a little more from the other. I really couldn’t imagine my not returning
to Knots Landing, but there was a thought or two about that at different
times.
Brian
Lavalle from Massachusetts
asks: “I loved Knots Landing; it was the best ever show on
television. However I think the only
mistake the show ever made was releasing Constance McCashin as Laura, how did
you feel about that?”
Michele:
Most people were very upset.
Laura and Constance were part of our core group when we started Knots
Landing and the character itself brought a tone that wasn’t inherent in any
other character. That was definitely
missed. Maybe some people know that
every year a show is on viewership begins to erode. And each year there’s an erosion of advertising dollars. Actors get cost of living increases and
whatever they negotiate, but the advertisers are giving less money to produce
the show. (The producers) had to look
at how they could save dollars to keep the show going so it made real sense to
cut the budget at that time.
AS:
Is that what happened with Julie Harris too?
Michele:
Yes. It wasn’t easy.
AS:
But was the thought ever there that they could become recurring
characters? Did they both have to leave
the show for good?
Michele:
That becomes the actors’ question.
Do they want to stay on a show that has made this kind of decision? Then again, sometimes the show thinks that
the best way to get rid of (bad choice of words) a character is to have the
character die. Some cases it works but
in most cases it doesn’t.
AS:
I stress this point because in the discussion of Knots Landing
that is the number one issue, at least as I see it. Why did they have to kill Laura off? What would it have been like if she stayed, etc., etc.
Michele (surprised): That’s interesting. Do you think it’s because of the fact that
they “killed Laura off,” as you put it, or the way they did it? From brain cancer?
AS:
I think it’s all those things.
Why did she have to go, why did they make it cancer and maybe even fans
have had the same reaction as characters on the show, namely, why did Laura
leave Knots Landing to die?
Michele: Yes, true.
AS:
I think it’s a combination of those things that still makes it so
intriguing for fans.
Michele:
And maybe that’s what makes it good television, too.
Petey
Hollister from Fayetteville,
AR asks: “It's my opinion that one of the biggest missteps during Knots
Landing's run was the murdering of Linda Fairgate. Linda had such
potential as a long-lasting character, what with the way she became intertwined
in the lives of Karen, Mack, Michael, and eventually Greg and Paige. The
season twelve writers obviously realized this, for as that season rolled along,
Linda was obviously being groomed as a new, younger Abby, someone to shake up
the Sumner Group. I'm curious to know how you and other cast members felt
about losing Lar Park Lincoln when the horrible season thirteen writers came
onboard, especially when Linda was developing into such a worthy adversary for
Karen and Paige?”
Michele: The answer to that is it that she was
not being groomed to be an Abby, it was just a development that was happening
at the Sumner Group. But as for the
season 13 writers, John Romano is someone I admire. The reason it wasn’t as successful with him is that he was told
to freshen up the show, to write it darker and grittier. There were a lot of “darker” shows out there
doing well – cop shows were seeing great success, and others. It certainly wasn’t John Romano’s fault, but
the gritty thing wasn’t working.
AS:
Is the gritty approach why they got rid of Linda Fairgate?
Michele:
You can’t have too many actors demanding more and more money when we
were getting fewer and fewer advertising dollars. One of the reasons why the show went off the air – actually the
single reason—was that it was a determination of the cost effectiveness of the
situation. It would have been
impossible to keep the show going at the rate we were going, and we all made
the decision to end the show. Some
people said Knots Landing was cancelled, but that was never the case. We
had a 19 share, which was very high.
They didn’t get those kinds of numbers in that slot for years.
AS:
But in the last season things were really getting hairy with budget
problems.
Michele:
For certain episodes not all of us were in the show and that became
obvious.
AS: Except for you. You did some shows
for scale.
Michele:
I didn’t do it for scale; bite your tongue!
AS:
You appeared in every episode that year while most regulars were in 15;
weren’t those extra shows for scale?
Michele:
Oh, the extra shows, right. Yes,
those shows I did for union scale and you’re right, I didn’t know that’s what
you meant.
AS:
Why did you do that when other actors did not?
Michele:
When I look at the heart of the show and what it should be … I had a
great problem with the core characters not in every show. People need to tune in and see the core
characters.
AS:
I remember it got so bad that there was an episode near the end called
“My Kingdom for a Horse” that only had you, Greg and Anne in it, and the rest
were supporting characters. The seams
were wearing thin there.
Michele:
And by then I was hardly in it at all.
They’d have me come in for one day and do something very quickly.
AS:
I’m going to list five classic Knots Landing moments and I
wondered if you can give me your quick thoughts about them, as someone who
worked on the show and as a fan.
Michele:
Sure.
AS:
Val getting her babies back.
Michele:
Very emotional. We were all in
touch with how the audience was feeling.
A very emotional time.
AS:
Karen getting shot by Wolfbridge.
Michele:
I just wanted to make sure I had clean underwear. (Laughs loudly). That’s all I cared about.
And also I wanted to look good as I was draped across the floor,
dying. I had a red Kamali dress that
was perfect for the occasion.
AS:
Val being terrorized by Jill Bennett.
Michele:
Ooh yes, that was great. It
showed how talented our actors were. It
had Joan Van Ark performing as if she were in play – one continuous take. Very thrilling.
AS:
Karen entering drug rehab.
Michele:
Mixed feelings. (Long pause)
AS:
Can you elaborate?
Michele:
I had questions as to whether Karen should take this route. (Pause)
But I worked very hard on those nine episodes about drug dependency. I became very involved with playing that
part properly.
AS:
I think you should have won an Emmy for that storyline. That was your finest moment on Knots.
Michele:
Thank you. You know, Julie
Harris and I were the only ones nominated for Emmys. But that was the mindset; it’s a soap opera and you don’t give it
Emmys.
AS:
Joshua falling to his death.
Michele:
I just saw him for lunch with Julie Harris.
AS:
Really? How is she?
Michele:
She is recovering. She was
taking mime lessons to recover her speech from her stroke. Isn’t that something? So when you say that about Joshua it reminds
me of my present day meeting with Alec Baldwin. He’s in the movie I’m in so it was good to see him and Julie
Harris.
AS:
And she’s getting better? That’s
terrific.
Michele:
She’s recovering quite well.
AS:
Let’s do the same thing for these actors on Knots … tell me some
thoughts on Donna Mills.
Michele:
Donna Mills – not only a beautiful woman, she is also a very shrewd
businesswoman. She’s got a lot of
knowledge in many different areas and can conform to what a man thinks a woman
should be.
AS:
How so?
Michele:
She can be assertive without seeming to be, that’s what I mean.
AS:
Michelle Phillips.
Michele:
Oh, Michelle. I saw her
recently, too. She’s just a good broad.
(Laughs) I always imagine her in a
dressing room with the New York Times or L.A. Times wearing white
gloves so she wouldn’t get ink on her hands.
Very smart, very well read and someone I like very much.
AS:
Halle Berry.
Michele:
Talk about a beauty. She was
sweet. Always had a smile. Very intent on doing good work.
AS:
Did she leave the show or was she written out?
Michele:
She was written out. She had a
type of contract for say, two years, where she was possibly going to be in a
certain number of episodes. They used
her for what they needed her for and that was it.
AS:
I guess we already covered William Devane, who was going to be my next
person.
Michele:
Yes we have.
AS:
How about John Pleshette then?
Michele:
John Pleshette. He was amazingly
creative. As you know, he wrote several
shows. He was a very nice person.
Erika Longo from Wayne, NJ asks: “Hi
Michele! I'm 15, and have met you three times, twice in NY and once in LA! My
question for you is: Are you planning on coming back to Broadway anytime soon,
and if so what will your next project be?”
Michele:
Oh, thank you. Right now I’m in
New York doing a workshop for a new musical comedy by Cy Coleman and Wendy
Wasserstein. What a “workshop” is is an
invited audience of (the producers’) peers and possible financial backers to
give ideas and criticism. It starts
tomorrow and runs for ten days.
AS:
Is it open to the public?
Michele:
No, it’s a closed show. We’re
just in the testing stages.
Chris
Sumner Matheson from San
Antonio, TX asks: “How does it feel heading back to the big screen after so
long?”
Michele:
Oh it was fun. Everyone was
funny! I really loved the leading
ladies, Debra Messing and Jennifer Aniston.
We got along right away and they made it fun.
AS:
What’s it called?
Michele:
Right now it doesn’t have a title, so we’re calling it the “Untitled
John Hamburg Project” (he’s the director).
But it’s from Universal and it stars Ben Stiller and you’ll know it when
you see it.
Shari from Clermont, Florida asks:
“We've been talking on the KL Forum about our favorite movies starring Knots
Characters. One of the movies mentioned was Color Me Perfect, about an
Autistic woman. Autism is very close to my heart (my son has Asperger's
Syndrome), and I was wondering was this project a labor of love for you, and if
so, why?”
Michele:
It wasn’t autism. We didn’t give
it a name. It was a deficiency in some
sense of the brain. Doing that movie I
wore four hats as you probably know so it was like a birthing process. So definitely, yes, a labor of love.
Dan James from Essex, England, UK asks:
“Hi Michele, I would like to ask about the film Colour Me Perfect. I saw
this film a while ago, and found it very touching, was it hard not only
starring but also directing the movie? And did you find it hard to play a woman
who had mental problems? I felt the film was brilliant, well acted and written,
and it was very sad at the end.”
Michele:
Yeah to all those questions. I
found it difficult to wear all those hats though it was a smooth process
overall. We came in on time and under
budget, as the saying goes. I don’t
think the next time I would bite off so much when making a movie but it was a
wonderful time.
David from Ohio asks:
“Hi Michele
I’m a HUGE fan of yours own everything you were in, pictures of you and
everything my grandma said I've been a fan since I was little back in 1988 I
watched Knots Landing with her. I read that you had your own pilot
called "The Michele Lee Show," how did you like working on that?
Love To You
and Blessings
David
#1 Michele Lee Fan
Forever
P.S. You have a beautiful voice!”
Michele:
Why thank you so much. I can’t
believe you knew that show! I loved
it. It was in the late 70s, before Knots
Landing. The trouble was, it was
like Valerie Harper’s character Rhoda from the Mary Tyler Moore Show
very much so Rhoda already had the built-in audience and I lost out.
Pamela from London, UK asks: “What is
your opinion about the possible war with Iraq?”
Michele:
Ooh boy. Watching TV as we’re speaking
and it looks like we’re going to war. (Note: this is Sunday, March 16,
2003). I have mixed feelings about all
this. It’s so troubling that it’s
taking a war to solve all these problems.
We missed a great opportunity to embrace the world for its sameness and
not by looking at all our differences.
This is an instance where the Pollyanna speech really can come into
effect. I just hope that even if we do
go to war, somewhere out of it good will come.
Carma from Oakland, CA asks: “Knots
Landing always seemed so realistic to me; it was as if the viewer was being
let in on the lives of these real people in this California town. My question
is why do you think there are no other shows like it anymore? And what do you
think of the rise of reality television?
Perhaps reality TV has taken the place of this type of drama? NOTE: I
also love reality TV :)”
Michele:
Interesting how they equated the two as people we know. I do think there is a void with no
continuing drama out there. If handled
properly, I think there is a great audience for it out there. As far as reality shows are concerned, I
really despise them. Maybe they could
be inspiring, though I don’t know how.
I just see them as voyeurism and they reflect the continuing demise of
television. Dealing in terms of dollars
and cents, these reality shows are very worthwhile but they’re replacing
quality TV.
Greg
Matheson from Delaware
asks: “Do you think there will be another reunion?”
Michele:
I don’t know if we could have another reunion, honestly. Everyone is living such different
lives. I think the actors would do it
since they loved the show so much. But
my guess is as good as yours.
AS:
And on that note, thank you very much for spending such a long
time with us today.
Michele:
It’s my great pleasure, Art.
Thanks to everyone who wrote in!
These were some excellent questions.
I really had to think on some of them.
Have a great day everyone.
Copyright 2003 Arthur Swift. Originally published March 21, 2003.